Venerable performer/director Dana Vespoli recently returned to the ranks of Evil Angel to direct her latest feature, My Stepson Is Evil. Dana’s directorial vision is distinctly hers, consisting of horror-inspired aesthetics and an aptitude for portraying salacious, forbidden trysts. My Stepson is Evil is just further evidence of Dana’s filmmaking skills, and the auteur herself was kind enough to sit down for an interview with HotMovies to discuss her career trajectory, her varying directorial projects, and her creative process. Enjoy our candid discussion below, and don’t forget to watch My Stepson Is Evil, which can be found exclusively on HotMovies.
HM: Hello Dana, I really appreciate you taking the time for us to talk. We’re really excited to get the new movie up too. How have you made out with the wildfires and earthquakes? Were you affected at all?
DV: Well, let’s see, the wildfires, we’re pretty lucky… last November, we had to evacuate but thankfully, we didn’t have any damage. I feel like a true blue Angeleno now, so I’m just kind of like, “Oh that’s just how it is.”
So, you entered the industry back in 2003 at the age of 31. Was that atypical for the time?
Yeah, It was unusual to start at my age… There wasn’t a lot of people my age just starting. I mean I was 31, but I looked 18. I did a lot of teen stuff at first.
I talk to Ed Powers all the time and he’s very proud of that, that you started with him. We’ve talked about your first scene and you did look very young for your age. And you still look good. How do you keep in shape?
Well, I don’t drink or smoke. I box. I’ve always been very active, I was an athlete in college and then I was always really athletic. I box almost every day unless I am shooting.
When did you get it in it to get in the boxing?
Probably about four years ago.
Oh, really? That recent?
Yeah, before that I was a runner; I would do marathons here and there. Just always really very physical. And I am always really well hydrated. I don’t think people realize how important that is.
HM: Do you follow boxing too?
I follow boxing mostly. I do follow some MMA stuff. I really like Amanda Nunes and I’m a big Holly Holm fan. Mostly the women in UFC and then just boxing. I follow Pacquiao, I am a Lomachenko fan, but I am also am a huge Katie Taylor fan. I love watching her fight.
Looking back, do you think there were advantages or disadvantages to entering at that age?
More advantages than disadvantages. The advantages were that I had lived a life outside of adult. So there’s something to be said for learning the value of a dollar early on. I worked in the financial district in San Francisco for a while, and so you have to get up and go be at the office by 8AM. So I had a more well-rounded perspective on what it means to have self-discipline and be an adult. Most of the people come in like fresh out of high school, or they barely had a job outside of this. So their first check is sometimes $1,500 bucks and then there’s another one coming a day later. So there’s this novice kind of perspective on money that it’s always just gonna keep coming and it feels like it comes easily. So a lot of times these girls have this illusion that it’s always gonna be there.
Yes, it’s similar to the sports teams. You sign some kid out of college who is in his 20s and you throw millions of dollars at them, and then they wonder why he goes and does something stupid. I find it just as irresponsible to give them that money, and just let them do what they want with it.
It’s funny, I was talking to my coach the other day about that. In a sport like boxing, where it’s, let’s be honest, it is a sport that that’s filled with a lot of people from poverty and there’s no one there saying, “No, no, no. 5% of this is going into a mandatory retirement fund that you can’t touch until you retire.” No one is watching out for these fighters. If you look at what happens, some of them retire with nothing.
And you see that in adult. There are things now that are wonderful that didn’t exist before, like APAC. But more likely than not, there’s gonna be really lean times where you’re eating through your savings. And you don’t wanna feel like you have to stay either. Some people feel like, “Oh I wish I could leave but I can’t afford to leave.” So, coming in at 31, I had done my research and I knew which companies I wanted to work for, and which ones to stay away from. So that was really helpful. So yeah, I think I benefited greatly.
So, you benefited by having those good habits established and bringing them into your new job?
Yes, but I also kind of went through a bad part that it was a very short, short period of time of partying. I didn’t get to [party] in college and I didn’t get to [party] just out of college and working, There was this party atmosphere. I called that period of 2003 to 2006 the “Wild West.” The industry was like the Wild West where it’s just like “anything goes.” Things that you would never see today. People are very conscious of the #MeToo Movement, and with social media where it is now, you make one misstep and you’re gonna be called out on Twitter and then your career could be over. So, it is a better and safer time to be in this business in many respects, even though in the old days money was growing on trees. Back then, if you had a camcorder and a mattress in a room and some lights, you could be a millionaire. There wasn’t any of the porn piracy that we have now.
There is much more of a trend now for women to enter the industry at an older age: India Summer, Cherie DeVille, Brandi Love, Alexis Fawx, Syren De Mer were all in their thirties. Deauxma was over 40 when she started, and Lacy Starr was over 50! And many of them are top-selling performers. What do you think this says about the adult industry and/or consumers of porn?
Well, there’s trends that happen. Listen, in the 90s, it was like the kind of plastic, pneumatic boob, very kind of artificial “Barbie” style of performers that were incredibly popular contract stars back then. Then it moved into this sort of natural place. I remember someone saying, “Don’t get your boobs done, stay natural as long as you can.” I remember when I came in it was “teen power,” “teen dream,” and I don’t know that any of those older ladies could have had careers coming in at that age, it would have been a very niche thing. Now, it’s a very mainstream thing. I think it is just trends, and I think it’s a trend that has maintained because of the way things are now with social media. The fact that fans have direct access to their favorite stars, they can keep these relationships going. They are buying access and they can ask, “When is your next movie coming out?” They can stay loyal. I don’t think [the trend] will die down because of the access.
With the internet and the ubiquity of porn, has the porn consumer changed? Are there new types of fans that didn’t exist thirty years ago?
Yeah, I think because of the prevalence of it. It used to be many people couldn’t touch porn because it required you to leave your house and go into an adult store, and maybe you don’t want anybody to see you, so you’re not inclined to get any porn unless your borrowing it from a friend or whatever. Now you can download it from your smartphone. Yeah, you can subscribe to something, or hit DM, or message your favorite star and request a custom video. You’ve done the entire exchange and organized when you’re gonna receive it, and it’s taken you ten minutes.
Sure, even in mainstream you have sites like Cameo where you can get a personalized message from your favorite celebrity. Is there a danger to the fact that fans have such direct access? How do you make sure you keep the relationship at the appropriate level?
Yeah, I think it depends on the performer. I think that there’s some girls that who’ll develop these long-lasting relationships. I remember Casey Calvert, who is amazing, she does quite a few customs and she said, “Hey I have somebody who’s like a loyal customer,” who’s purchased customs from her for a couple of years. She was like, “Oh he’s requesting that you and I do something.” And so we went and we did it. So, it’s like you build those kind of “professional,” but certainly some type of relationship with these customers. I suppose, if things went too far, and a fan just got weird or crazy, you cut them off. It happens all the time. You block them because really the only access they have to you is via whatever email you give them or whatever platform they can communicate with you on.
You started directing in 2006, three years after you after entered the industry. Was that your plan all along?
Yes, and I knew that the people that I really liked, like John Stagliano, John Leslie, Joey Silvera, all started as performers . I also have this thing, it’s important to me as somebody who’s been a performer, and I still perform, that when I’m directing girls that they understand that I am never gonna ask them to do anything that I haven’t already done myself, or would do myself. So there’s a trust element. I think you learn a lot in performing.
That brings me to my next question. You’ve said you think you are better at directing then you are at performing.
Yeah, I am more consistent [at directing]. I am a good performer in some cases, depending on the situation, whereas someone like Dana DeArmond is a good performer no matter what the situation, and that’s what makes her special. I’m very sensitive. I still enjoy performing, but I can do a better job when I can dictate what’s happening. I’m working with this person, and this is the scenario, and I wanna try this, and I feel like I’m the only person that’s gonna get the result that I want, so I’ll go ahead and put myself in it.
You came from financial industry and nothing even remotely to do with the movie business, but did you already have an interest in making movies?
I had a long interest in porn, from when I saw my first porno and I was a consumer, secretly of course, until I could procure it legally in college. I was a fan. But, when I was working at my leasing job, I was miserable and I had a really good friend that was making an insane amount of money at the Mitchell Brothers‘ O’Farell Theater. She told me, “I work maybe four times a month, and it’s enough.” I was like, “Holy shit. I wanna try this.” So I quit my job, and then I went to the Mitchell Brothers and started working there. I was doing the girl/girl sex shows, and I met Nina Hartley, Marilyn Chambers, and Kylie Ireland, and all these guys. I would talk to them about porn and they would always ask, “Why aren’t you doing it? You really seem interested in it.” And I was like, “Oh, I don’t know.” Then, when I moved to LA, I just figured, “Why not? Why not try it?”
How was it working for the Mitchell Brothers at the O’Farell Theater? Was it crazy, or had things calmed down then?
I left when things got crazy because it was hard to make money. I make no judgement about the stuff that was going on there, but it was hard to make money. It was uncomfortable. When Diane Feinstein was the mayor, there was always the threat of a raid, so people if people were gonna do anything illegal, they put a huge price tag on it.
What is it about directing that you enjoy? Do you like the technical aspects where you are creating the aesthetic, or is it more about your interaction with the performers and coaching a performance out of them?
That’s a very good question. There’s a lot of different things for different reasons. I am a really visual person, and there’s an aesthetic component to composing a scene and also this odd kind of matchmaker thing that I enjoy. I love experimenting with combinations of performers. I get excited like matchmaking, and I think I intuit pretty well.
Do you have to know them a little bit more personally before you get that intuition?
Well, I tend to watch performers. I don’t like shooting people I know nothing about it, I’m not interested in the prettiest girl. People will say, “Oh you gotta shoot this girl look how beautiful she is,” and I’m like, “I wanna see how she does, I don’t care how beautiful she is, I need to know what she likes and how she does.”
And, there is also people whose opinion I trust very much, like Kayden Kross will tell me “Oh, you’ll love this girl,” and then just describe to me in great detail why she thinks so. So anybody I can get a sense of the more I work with the performer, the more that I am excited to try more things. There’s certain performers I’ve had long-lasting relationships with, like Bree Daniels and Dana DeArmond, of course. There’s certain people where it allows me to be able to create new scenarios for them, and those make me the happiest when I get to know people.
But with the gonzo, it’s a very visual thing. I also like the energy to comes off the performers, especially if I can create a situation where the performers can slip into a zone where things become organic and natural, and I’m able to capture the fun little idiosyncratic things that happen when two people are having sex that is so lost in so much stuff that is manufactured. I feel like it’s why I love the old movies so much, being able to see moments between people that feel genuine and that feel relatable.
Right, okay. You do a lot of features and then they’re well-done with great storylines. We just did a post on the blog of series we wish somebody would bring back. Real Sex Diaries is a series that the staff all loved. Where did the idea for that series come from?
That series kinda came out of… at first it was honestly a thing of when you learn a lot about yourself when you try things, I guess. It’s not really glamorous. It came out of budgetary constraints; it just made sense to do from an economic perspective. Manuel was so successful with his Raw series, and I think he even said, “You should do something like that.”
Yeah, it certainly worked. I think sometimes when there’s constraints it makes you more creative.
Sure, and I realized how socially awkward I was because of that series. I’m like, “Oh I’m with these performers.” It was a funny situation because there wasn’t any kind of scenario to it, it was really had to be natural, ’cause that was the point of it. But yeah, Real Sex Diary was fun to do. It was fun to do because it was relaxed and easy to do. You just kinda had to show up and have your person there, and then you guys talk and learn things about each other. It’s really fun.
Do you think you’ll make another one?
Possibly… possibly, yeah.
How about Fluid? Doing some of the research, I know that’s one of your favorites. Do you think you’re holding out to do another one of those?
Interestingly enough, it didn’t perform that well in terms of sales. It was one of those ones that people can appreciate maybe some of the creativity behind it, or like the visual imagery. The best-selling shit that I did was like My Evil Stepmom Fucked My Ass. So we’re in back into, across pretty much all lines, that taboo shit tends to just sell well, regardless of the the brand. It worked. It was a little expensive to do, and it didn’t make enough to justify doing more. I talked to John Stagliano about it doing more because I really liked it, but it’s gotta make sense financially now more than ever.
So the first film you ever directed for Evil Angel was Forsaken, right?
Mhm.
It had bit of a dark theme… a bit surrealistic. How did you convince Evil Angel to let you do something so creative for your directorial debut?
I’d directed for years before then, because I started in 2006. I had been directing for New Sensations, and then moved on. I spent probably a few years with Mile High doing features and vignettes for Sweetheart, and even for Combat Zone. I did some weird shit for Combat Zone, and it was on the strength of the weird shit for Combat Zone that Stagliano said, “Are you gonna do horror?” And so I said, “Heck yes, I’ll do it.” Because I had ownership, they weren’t going to sustain a loss. If Forsaken had done really, really badly, they get a percentage; I’m the one paying for the movie. So there was really no risk for them.
At that time I had ownership, so I was gonna take risks. And Stagliano had done Voracious. The company itself didn’t shy away from dark themes. He isn’t afraid to be dark; that’s why I love Stagliano and the company so much. They appreciate the perspective, and the weird sexual predilections of the directors.
So this is your first movie in about three years for them?
Mhm.
You’ve said in other interviews that the movies you make for Evil Angel under your brand are for you, on your terms. You’re not making someone else’s movie, like you do for other studios. Why so long in-between movies?
This newer title is through Evil itself, so I provide treatments to Evil and we discuss them and discuss casting and all that kind of stuff ahead of time. I don’t do pop up and say, “Here I shot this.” There’s definitely discussion and considering things before even going into it, so I’ve basically written a treatment, I proposed an idea, they’ll approve the idea, then I’ll give them a treatment. We’ll discuss the treatment and then just discuss casting and go from there.
I had just been busy with Mile High, and I’d been at Mile High for so long. Then shooting a couple of things for Red Light, and just writing scripts for different people, and doing different things. Then I just sort of entered into this conversation with John about movies and work and different things, and he’s like, “Oh well, maybe, if you’re interested, we could talk about doing different stuff.” The stepmom and stepson stuff did well before, but maybe having a new, fresh outlook on a similar scene… that’s kinda how it came about.
Is this going to be part of the Evil Stepson series?
Well, no: it’s different. It’s funny because I just realized there was a fan who was confused. He was like, “What’s the difference between My Evil Stepson and My Stepson is Evil. Well, My Evil Stepson I owned, and it was just shot very differently. My Stepson is Evil is a little more highly produced, so the look is different. Same style of sex and themes, but the look is different. So, it’s sort of repackaged.
Gotcha, okay, and you touch on this a little earlier, but you’re a big fan of horror.
Ohh yeah.
You started TerrorXXX.com; how’s that project going?
Well we’re kind of re-configuring the first initial cluster of scenes we put up. What I’m learning from kind of studying responses and readjusting how we’re shooting the horror. Fans have a hard time if they’re watching an Abella Danger scene and she doesn’t look like Abella Danger, then they’re not interested. We did some really amazing effects with makeup with that, but the stuff that tends to do better, the girls look at least somewhat like themselves. So, we’re lining up our shoots and kinda keeping that in mind as far as how we’re structuring the scenes.
Are you directing those scenes, or do you outsource that to someone else?
Yeah, I do.
And you’re not going to put those scenes out on VOD?
No, not at present. But soon.
You’ve directed numerous, numerous trans movies. In general, trans performers are making some progress, as far as how they’re being accepted in society. They’re appearing in popular TV shows, movies, reality shows, right? People are talking about trans-specific issues now, and they’re part of the public discussion now. But even in the adult industry, there’s a stark difference between what a trans movie used to be and what it is now. So my question to you is, when did you notice the shift?
Yeah, I noticed it around probably… Where I really noticed the shift was when Nica Noelle created TransSensual. The TransSensual studio had a more ethical approach, you know? I steer clear of, and it wasn’t really hard for me, but I really dislike the word “tranny,” “shemale,” all that kind of stuff. Even when I did my TS I Love You movie, I was mindful of that. So I did that, and I didn’t do another trans movie or scene until I started sharing the work with Nica. She would sort of do a gay movie and then I would do a trans movie, and we would flip-flop and trade. Finally, she was like, “How about I just stick to Icon Male because I’ve been doing it for so long, and you do TransSensual?” And that’s kinda how I ended up doing as many of those movies as I did. But what year was that again? She started doing TransSensual, I wanna say like 2013? But that’s when I saw the shift. The movies she did were very thoughtful, and it wasn’t making a mockery or a joke out of the trans process.
And it’s becoming much more so in the adult industry. You have female performers now who are doing their first trans scenes. We’ve seen it numerous ways. I just did an interview with Sean Michaels not too long ago, and I thought it was huge for him to come out and do what he did. Do you think more will follow? Will more male stars follow his lead?
Yes, absolutely. I mean, I think it’s going to be easier for women. Sometimes it just takes Angela White doing—and not just Angela, it could be plenty of girls. Adriana Chechik, who is arguably a huge star, was doing trans scenes for a long time before Jessica Drake and Angela. Angela is such a beloved figure in the industry, so when you see her doing it and she’s not getting backlash… You know, I think girls were always inclined and open to it, but they were so afraid of it affecting them negatively.
And I get it, it’s about the pocketbook in general, that’s what you always worried about it. So that’s why it’s just a huge deal; it’s much more accepted in general society. I think people aren’t afraid of it as much anymore. Even people visiting our website too. For us, some of our best selling stuff is all the trans stuff, and we cater mainly to a straight male audience.
Yeah.
Okay, so you’re certainly a good filmmaker. Your resume has proven that. Have you ever done anything non-adult?
No, I did some commercials when I first moved out here, but nothing that would be, I don’t know, considered kind of mainstream acting or directing.
Would you ever want to make a non-adult movie?
I do, I’d love to.
You could maybe do a short film or something, somewhere down the road…
Yeah, I’ve been kinda bouncing around with the horror scripts that I’ve have been tinkering with on my computer for a while, and usually life gets in the way. I start busting out scripts for other people or for myself within the business ’cause that’s where the money is right now. But yes, eventually I’d love that.
Envisioning the future, you know, you have Netflix now, Hulu, and so forth, and there’s plenty of people in the adult industry that are very, very talented. You could make a mainstream, viable product. I could see you doing this during the day, and maybe have a side-project working for Netflix or someone else along those lines. There’s plenty of funny and good actors in the industry. Do you agree? Could you see something like that happening?
Yeah, I do. I could. It’s funny that there’s always this joke that people in the industry can’t act, and I’m like, “Nope.” I see some pretty amazing stuff out of people.
Yeah, I always thought they could… It’s just… You’re in a city and you’re in an industry that’s just flooded with people. So if you wanna eat, you do what you have to do.
Right.
I mean let’s face it: it’s not the most fair industry. The most talented people don’t always get the job, right?
Right.
Lastly, what should people watch out for in the near future from you? What do you have coming up?
There are a couple Evil Angel movies. Consent is coming, and another one that I’m just shooting the last scene this weekend.
Oh cool. So, a couple more Evil Angel features coming up over the next year, right?
Yeah.
Awesome, I’m going to look forward to those. Alright, Dana, thank you very much for your time.
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